Comments on: Microsoft turing to the future of computing at PDC with Azure http://www.crafted.com.au/blog/2008/10/28/microsoft-turing-to-the-future-of-computing-at-pdc-with-azure/ JamieG looks deep into the ramifications of current trends in Technology and Media Sat, 28 Aug 2010 18:56:21 +1000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: JamieG http://www.crafted.com.au/blog/2008/10/28/microsoft-turing-to-the-future-of-computing-at-pdc-with-azure/comment-page-1/#comment-7075 JamieG Mon, 24 Nov 2008 09:43:56 +0000 http://www.crafted.com.au/blog/?p=201#comment-7075 I too am not a big fan of proprietary implementations. Adobe FLEX/FLASH is more open then closed, and my prefered solution. Silverlight did have specs that indicated it was much fatser then Flash, but Flash also just released a C/C++ to Flash byte code compiler which is likely to bring Flash to on-par with Silverlight. Either way, there is no real open source equivalent solution. Flash is resonable open, but really, I do not expect there to be ever a real OPEN implementation. The implementation simply needs to much integration and work and I cannot ever see open source archiving something as rounded as tools coming from Adobe of Microsoft. Like I said, Flash code elements are open. But yes, the cool tools, as is Photoshop, used to build these projects are not and never will be open. As Photoshop and many of the powerful creative tools are never to have open source equivalents. So are we to expect the most powerful tools for making these RIA's to be open?? Sure, I expect ruff open source implementations. They already exist for flash. In any case, Flash/Silverlight implmentation is the way to go. It is a better solution. Faster to develop, needs less resources to run on the client system (When doing something more then a simply FORM). The real issue here is that many RIA's probably don't need anything more then simple Javascript/AJAX implementations. Well currently. End users don;t really expect much more. And the trend to simple interfaces also lend themselves to simple javascript /AJAX implementations. But I feel end users will slowly expect more and more funky interfaces whcih will out grow the capabilities of Javascript/AJAX. As the very functional Text terminal was over taken by grahics and windows.. I too am not a big fan of proprietary implementations. Adobe FLEX/FLASH is more open then closed, and my prefered solution. Silverlight did have specs that indicated it was much fatser then Flash, but Flash also just released a C/C++ to Flash byte code compiler which is likely to bring Flash to on-par with Silverlight.

Either way, there is no real open source equivalent solution. Flash is resonable open, but really, I do not expect there to be ever a real OPEN implementation. The implementation simply needs to much integration and work and I cannot ever see open source archiving something as rounded as tools coming from Adobe of Microsoft.
Like I said, Flash code elements are open. But yes, the cool tools, as is Photoshop, used to build these projects are not and never will be open.
As Photoshop and many of the powerful creative tools are never to have open source equivalents. So are we to expect the most powerful tools for making these RIA’s to be open?? Sure, I expect ruff open source implementations. They already exist for flash.

In any case, Flash/Silverlight implmentation is the way to go. It is a better solution. Faster to develop, needs less resources to run on the client system (When doing something more then a simply FORM).

The real issue here is that many RIA’s probably don’t need anything more then simple Javascript/AJAX implementations. Well currently. End users don;t really expect much more. And the trend to simple interfaces also lend themselves to simple javascript /AJAX implementations. But I feel end users will slowly expect more and more funky interfaces whcih will out grow the capabilities of Javascript/AJAX. As the very functional Text terminal was over taken by grahics and windows..

]]> By: Philippe BERAUD http://www.crafted.com.au/blog/2008/10/28/microsoft-turing-to-the-future-of-computing-at-pdc-with-azure/comment-page-1/#comment-6923 Philippe BERAUD Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:55:00 +0000 http://www.crafted.com.au/blog/?p=201#comment-6923 Jamie, i agree with your XML (xaml,…) vs javascript analysis and also with the fact Silverlight is a (too) tightly integrated low level… but the main problem is the silverlight engine performance, its proprietary nature and its optimization, especially on other platforms than Windows. As i understand it, Silverlight is a stripped-down version of Windows Presentation Fondation and i'll not be surprised if Microsoft real goal with silverlight is to lure developpers to Windows only solutions. Do we need (want) another proprietary MS technology to rule the web ? We don't have to forget that one of the web's main characteristic is its universality (despite MS attempts to control internet…)… About the"cpu consumption"of AJAX and hand held devices, i strongly believe smartphones like the iPhone are under-exploited powerful beasts :-) P.S : thanks very much for your email and sorry for all my spelling faults ;-) Jamie,
i agree with your XML (xaml,…) vs javascript analysis and also with the fact Silverlight is a (too) tightly integrated low level… but the main problem is the silverlight engine performance, its proprietary nature and its optimization, especially on other platforms than Windows.
As i understand it, Silverlight is a stripped-down version of Windows Presentation Fondation and i’ll not be surprised if Microsoft real goal with silverlight is to lure developpers to Windows only solutions.
Do we need (want) another proprietary MS technology to rule the web ? We don’t have to forget that one of the web’s main characteristic is its universality (despite MS attempts to control internet…)…

About the”cpu consumption”of AJAX and hand held devices, i strongly believe smartphones like the iPhone are under-exploited powerful beasts :-)

P.S : thanks very much for your email and sorry for all my spelling faults ;-)

]]> By: JamieG http://www.crafted.com.au/blog/2008/10/28/microsoft-turing-to-the-future-of-computing-at-pdc-with-azure/comment-page-1/#comment-6922 JamieG Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:52:21 +0000 http://www.crafted.com.au/blog/?p=201#comment-6922 Hi Philippe, When I was talking of quicktime and silverlight/flash, it was mainly in the video area. Yes, ajax/javascript capabilities may also be implemented. An experience like youtube will be very possible and very close to all that youtube offers. However, when it comes to RIA, the above still applies. A tightly integrated low level, NON interpreted implementation with a fast end effective UI all designed as one technology implementation is always going to kill anything, Javascript, CSS, Ajax will ever do. It does by definition as how could the combination of 3 different committee run standards compete with an elegant well rounded implementation. The idea that computers are just becoming faster to make up for all this overhead is bunkum. Especially as hand held devices and lower powered devices are the future. Less code, less documentation that is able to archive the same result, in general, will be faster and more likely to be a better implementation. James Hi Philippe,
When I was talking of quicktime and silverlight/flash, it was mainly in the video area. Yes, ajax/javascript capabilities may also be implemented. An experience like youtube will be very possible and very close to all that youtube offers.
However, when it comes to RIA, the above still applies. A tightly integrated low level, NON interpreted implementation with a fast end effective UI all designed as one technology implementation is always going to kill anything, Javascript, CSS, Ajax will ever do. It does by definition as how could the combination of 3 different committee run standards compete with an elegant well rounded implementation.

The idea that computers are just becoming faster to make up for all this overhead is bunkum. Especially as hand held devices and lower powered devices are the future.

Less code, less documentation that is able to archive the same result, in general, will be faster and more likely to be a better implementation.

James

]]> By: Philippe BERAUD http://www.crafted.com.au/blog/2008/10/28/microsoft-turing-to-the-future-of-computing-at-pdc-with-azure/comment-page-1/#comment-6920 Philippe BERAUD Fri, 14 Nov 2008 09:02:16 +0000 http://www.crafted.com.au/blog/?p=201#comment-6920 Hi Jamie, Congratulations for your blog ! But i just want to give you my humble opinion about one of your affirmations : "Lets get this straight. Javascript based internet applications are NEVER going to be as capable as, for example, Native Microsoft Word. However, Silverlight will get it much closer then any other technology available now or on the road maps of other technologies…Javascript/AJAX frame works will probably archive very functional applications, but the polish and user interface speed will never match" Aren't you too much optimistic about silverlight? Especially if you consider your excellent article about Quicktime X (http://www.crafted.com.au/blog/2008/06/20/apple-quicktime-x-a-new-flashsilverlight-competitor/)… I'm not sure the game is over and the future of ajax/javascript seems to be full of (good) surprises : for example, just look at mathworx library (http://www.mathworx.org/) and imagine the way you could use it …combined to technologies like CSS3, you should have a fantastic ajax UI plateform development. Another factor to consider is the way web industry is heading : i think people don't want any more proprietary technologies for the web and Silverlight is a real proprietary one (despite its relative openess). My 2 cents… :-) Hi Jamie,

Congratulations for your blog !

But i just want to give you my humble opinion about one of your affirmations :

“Lets get this straight. Javascript based internet applications are NEVER going to be as capable as, for example, Native Microsoft Word. However, Silverlight will get it much closer then any other technology available now or on the road maps of other technologies…Javascript/AJAX frame works will probably archive very functional applications, but the polish and user interface speed will never match”

Aren’t you too much optimistic about silverlight? Especially if you consider your excellent article about Quicktime X (http://www.crafted.com.au/blog/2008/06/20/apple-quicktime-x-a-new-flashsilverlight-competitor/)…

I’m not sure the game is over and the future of ajax/javascript seems to be full of (good) surprises :
for example, just look at mathworx library (http://www.mathworx.org/) and imagine the way you could use it …combined to technologies like CSS3, you should have a fantastic ajax UI plateform development.

Another factor to consider is the way web industry is heading : i think people don’t want any more proprietary technologies for the web and Silverlight is a real proprietary one (despite its relative openess).

My 2 cents… :-)

]]>